tempo trascrizione

00:06:00 talk radio TNT IC Benvenuti allo show di Dirk Pohlman su
00:12:00 TNT radio e la mia ospite di oggi è Cynthia Chung, ho pronunciato correttamente Cynthia?
00:19:00 Ok, ci siamo già incontrati diverse volte in giro per il mondo con suo marito
00:25:00 Matthew e uno degli argomenti che entrambi condividiamo è il gladio.
00:32:00 gladio, quindi lei ha scritto una serie di cinque parti, credo fossero quattro, non ne sono sicuro.
00:39:00 sulla cultura strategica, quindi cosa ne pensi?
00:45:00 è il tuo punto di vista su gladio, io ci sono arrivato e ti spiegherò come ci sono arrivato, ma come lo spiegheresti a un ragazzo di 16 anni?
00:51:00 tuo nipote di 16 anni, durante una riunione di famiglia.
00:57:00 Ehm, sì, anche per me, in realtà, la prima volta che ho sentito parlare di
01:02:00 gladio è stata la prima volta che ho sentito parlare diffusamente di Gladio, quando lei ha tenuto una conferenza per la
01:07:00 Fondazione Marea Crescente e l’avevo già sentita, ma non mi era mai entrata in testa
01:13:00 la rilevanza e l’ampiezza della cosa e poi
01:18:00 Quando è iniziata la guerra in Ucraina, nel 2022, ho iniziato questa serie di cinque puntate
01:25:00 per la cultura strategica che ha finito per diventare un libro.
01:30:00 sole nero non tramonta mai um e mi sono imbattuto di nuovo in Gladio in
01:37:00 Questa ricerca per cercare di dare un senso a come siamo finiti nella situazione che abbiamo trovato.
01:43:00 ci siamo trovati con gli Stati Uniti e non più con una guerra per procura con la Russia, ma con una guerra diretta.
01:50:00 con la Russia in Ucraina e quindi Gladio era in realtà una
01:57:00 um centrale per capire cosa sia la NATO, quale sia il ruolo che la NATO ha effettivamente
02:03:00 ha svolto fin dalle sue origini e direi che per un sedicenne
02:09:00 è che, insomma, è complicato perché bisogna anche
02:14:00 bisogna capire chi erano le vere parti in causa nella Seconda Guerra Mondiale e la storia che abbiamo raccontato.
02:20:00 storia che ci viene raccontata, cioè che ci sono i buoni, i chiari buoni e i chiari cattivi, non è…
02:27:00 sfortunatamente non è la realtà di quella guerra e che c’erano fondamentalmente due
02:34:00 ideologie per le quali si combatteva quella guerra, una era che le persone
02:42:00 erano viste come qualcosa da governare, che non c’era una vera e propria idea di democrazia.
02:48:00 idea di democrazia, anche se spesso si dipinge come se fosse dalla parte della democrazia.
02:54:00 um dove in definitiva si trattava di una prospettiva fascista che veniva condivisa da molti
03:02:00 um influenti ambienti degli Stati Uniti, della Gran Bretagna, della Francia, ecc.
03:09:00 um e quando la guerra finì e i cosiddetti cattivi, come i
03:15:00 nazisti e i fascisti italiani furono sconfitti, la realtà della situazione fu che
03:22:00 um questi cattivi non erano mai stati veramente, non era previsto che andasse così e se si guarda alla
03:28:00 come si sono sviluppate le relazioni prima che diventassero chiaramente dei cattivi
03:34:00 perché per molto tempo, fino a un certo punto, il fascismo non è stato considerato una parola cattiva.
03:42:00 erano in realtà i comunisti e soprattutto gli stalinisti
03:48:00 ad essere considerati cattivi e poi a pari merito con Hitler.
03:53:00 con Hitler, così quando la Seconda guerra mondiale fu cosiddetta finita
04:00:00 questi schieramenti di nuovo con un’ideologia fascista iniziarono a lavorare di nuovo con le forze alleate.
04:07:00 con le Forze Alleate praticamente da subito, anche sovrapponendosi alla guerra, come abbiamo visto nel caso della Grecia, dove la
04:14:00 La Gran Bretagna intervenne in Grecia mentre era in corso la Seconda Guerra Mondiale a sostegno dei nazisti.
04:21:00 i nazisti contro la resistenza comunista… Cose del genere hanno iniziato a svilupparsi…
04:29:00 hanno iniziato a svilupparsi dopo la seconda guerra mondiale, ovvero gli eserciti di supporto che
04:34:00 probabilmente all’inizio avevano un buon scopo, cioè erano stati creati nel caso in cui la
04:40:00 la Germania vincesse, avremmo avuto tutti questi nuclei di resistenza in tutta Europa.
04:47:00 Europa, in seguito furono istituiti nel caso di un’invasione sovietica dell’Europa dopo la fine del conflitto.
04:54:00 Europa dopo la sconfitta dei nazisti, che era una preoccupazione costante soprattutto dei Churchill.
05:00:00 e questo non è mai accaduto, ed è qui che la questione diventa molto controversa.
05:07:00 dove questi eserciti di retroguardia vennero sempre più utilizzati per plasmare le politiche democratiche.
05:13:00 le politiche democratiche e i leader democratici, per cui venivano usati
05:20:00 per orchestrare il terrorismo in tutta Europa.
05:27:00 incolpati di attività in gran parte comuniste e che si sovrapponevano ad alcune
05:33:00 delle attività comuniste, anche se dobbiamo ricordare che durante la Seconda Guerra Mondiale furono proprio i comunisti, anche
05:39:00 all’interno dell’Italia, della Grecia e di molti altri Paesi a rappresentare la vera resistenza contro i nazisti.
05:45:00 i nazisti e che la preoccupazione era che dopo la Seconda Guerra Mondiale questi sarebbero stati chiaramente
05:51:00 sarebbero stati i gruppi che sarebbero stati eletti per formare i governi di questi Paesi e questa è una delle
05:58:00 delle prime cose ben documentate in cui l’America è intervenuta sono state le elezioni italiane.
06:03:00 elezioni italiane, che sarebbero state le prime elezioni in Europa dopo la Seconda Guerra Mondiale, proprio per intervenire
06:11:00 per minare il sostegno dei comunisti in Italia, così questi eserciti di retroguardia
06:17:00 venivano sempre più utilizzati come un’arma contro i popoli europei al fine di
06:24:00 dare la colpa ai comunisti e ottenere il sostegno per una politica di estrema destra.
06:30:00 politica di estrema destra che, in ultima analisi, tendeva allo stesso tipo di politica fascista
06:35:00 fascisti che sono stati sconfitti durante la Seconda Guerra Mondiale e questo è l’obiettivo del

…

tempo transcript
00:06:00 talk radio TNT IC welcome to the Dirk Pohlman show on
00:12:00 TNT radio and my guest today is Cynthia Chung did I pronounce that correct Cynthia yes
00:19:00 okay um we have met several times now all around the globe with your husband
00:25:00 Matthew also and one of the topics that we both share and interest in is really
00:32:00 gladio so you have written a five part series I think was it four part I’m not
00:39:00 sure um on strategic culture about it so what
00:45:00 is your take on gladio I came to it I will explain how I came to it but how would you explain it to a 16 year old
00:51:00 your 16 year old nephew on a family meeting
00:57:00 um yeah well for for me as well actually the first time I was hearing about
01:02:00 gladio spoken extensively was when you uh gave us a lecture to the the rising
01:07:00 tide foundation and um I had heard it before but it it had never quite sunk in
01:13:00 us to the the relevance and the magnitude of it and then
01:18:00 um when the Ukraine war had started uh in 2022 I I began this five-part
01:25:00 series for strategic culture which ended up becoming um a book uh the empire in which the
01:30:00 black Sun never set um and I uh came across gladio again in
01:37:00 um This research to try to make sense of how we ended up in in the situation that
01:43:00 we we found ourselves with a you know the US pretty much and not even now a proxy war with Russia but a direct war
01:50:00 with Russia in in Ukraine um and so gladio was actually a
01:57:00 um Central to understanding what NATO actually what role NATO has actually
02:03:00 played since um it’s it’s very origin and I would say to I guess a 16 year old
02:09:00 is that well I mean it’s complicated because you also
02:14:00 have to understand what who were the the true sides in World War II and uh the
02:20:00 story that we are told that you know we have the good guys the clear good guys and we have the clear bad guys is uh is
02:27:00 not um unfortunately the reality of of that war and that there was basically two
02:34:00 ideologies that that war was being fought over one was that uh people uh
02:42:00 were were seen as something to be ruled over uh that you there wasn’t a true
02:48:00 idea of democracy although it often portrays itself as being on the side of democracy
02:54:00 um where it was ultimately a fascist Outlook that was being shared by many
03:02:00 um influential quarters within the United States within Britain uh within France and and so forth
03:09:00 um and when that when the war was over and the so-called bad guys you know the
03:15:00 Nazi and the the Italian fascists were defeated the reality of the situation was that
03:22:00 um these bad guys were never really it wasn’t supposed to go down that way and if you look at
03:28:00 how relationships were being developed before they became the clear bad guys
03:34:00 because for the longest time you know fascism wasn’t actually considered a bad word up until a certain point
03:42:00 um it was really the Communists and especially you know the the stalinists
03:48:00 who were considered um bad and uh later on on equal footing
03:53:00 with with Hitler um so when World War II was a so-called over
04:00:00 these uh alignments again with a fascist ideology started to again work with the
04:07:00 Allied Forces pretty much right away even overlapping with the war as we saw the case with Greece where you had
04:14:00 Britain intervening in Greece while World War II was ongoing in support of
04:21:00 the Nazis against the Communist resistance um you had uh things like this that
04:29:00 started to develop after World War II which were the stay behind armies which
04:34:00 arguably had a good purpose initially which was it they were set up in case
04:40:00 Germany was to win that we would have all of these um resistance cores set up throughout
04:47:00 Europe later on they uh they were set up in case there was a Soviet invasion of
04:54:00 Europe after the the Nazis were defeated which was an ongoing concern of especially Churchills
05:00:00 and that never happened and this is where it gets uh very controversial
05:07:00 where these stay behind armies were increasingly used to shape
05:13:00 um Democratic policies Democratic leaders so they they’re they were used
05:20:00 to basically orchestrate terrorism throughout Europe they were they were
05:27:00 blamed on a largely communist activities and and they were overlapping with some
05:33:00 of the Communist activities although we have to keep in mind during World War II it was really the Communists including
05:39:00 within Italy Greece many other countries that were the real resistance against
05:45:00 the Nazis and that the concern was that after uh World War II these were clearly
05:51:00 going to be the groups who were going to be elected as to form the governments of these countries and that’s the one of
05:58:00 the the well-documented the first things that America intervened on was the
06:03:00 Italian elections it was going to be the first elections to occur in Europe after World War II specifically to intervene
06:11:00 to undermine uh the Communist support in in Italy so these stay behind armies
06:17:00 were increasingly used as a form of weapon against the European people in order to
06:24:00 to blame it on the Communist uh gain support for a more far-right kind of
06:30:00 policy which is uh ultimately you know leaning towards the same kind of fascist
06:35:00 policies that were so-called defeated during World War II and uh this the the
06:41:00 people were constantly lied to as to what was truly behind uh all these uh
06:47:00 terrorist attacks Italy is the the most I guess you could say a pronounced example of this with two decades of the
06:55:00 the years of lead uh which uh was just an ongoing attack on the uh Italian
07:01:00 people the the assassination of Aldo Moro you know uh Danielle againza’s work
07:07:00 is a very um instrumental in my understanding of this he he did excellent research and
07:14:00 made a very good uh point that when the Senate the Italian Senate wanted to
07:19:00 invest open up the investigation again with Aldo Morris assassination after gladio became known to the public with
07:28:00 andreotti’s confession the Senate was asking for the the CIA to
07:34:00 to basically uh cooperate with this uh reopening of the investigation and the
07:40:00 CIA basically refused to the Senate also realized that when they had reopened this investigation into Alda Morrow’s uh
07:48:00 death that the files were gone most of the files went missing so this
07:56:00 has opened up a lot of questions as to what exactly was this whole Cold War
08:02:00 period about and it implicates McCarthyism cointel Pro which is known
08:08:00 today as attacking the Civil Rights movements in the United States you know they were found implicated against
08:16:00 Martin Luther King’s um civil liberty groups and and so forth that this was never really about
08:24:00 um the safety and the security of the western people against uh Soviet communism but was in fact a continuation
08:33:00 of a fascist orientation and these uh these secret armies under gladio again
08:39:00 were also shown um very clearly in Daniella ganser’s work to be directly tied to Nato
08:48:00 yeah um that was a tour de force through the history and uh I can agree on everything
08:55:00 you said there um to me it became obvious that something was strange with the end of
09:03:00 World War II um because uh we have the case of Italy Italy is most interesting in this way
09:10:00 that uh that’s where it started for me um that you could see that the Americans
09:16:00 had the landing and went up slowly very slowly through Italy northwards and were
09:23:00 meeting German troops and there was the strange par The Strange Case of Alan
09:30:00 Dallas doing negotiations with the general SS General wolf wolf uh German name I should say wolf
09:39:00 and this was going on on behind the back of Roosevelt who didn’t know about it
09:45:00 but because Stalin had good spies in the intelligence apparatus of the West he
09:51:00 got to know about it and uh there was it was strange because um they were meant to be allies against
09:59:00 national socialism and fascism uh national socialism in this case Germany
10:04:00 and fascism for Italy but Alan Dallas was already preparing a
10:10:00 new game and that’s created a very interesting uh situation in in Italy as
10:19:00 you described it and then you have of course there’s uh James Jesus Angleton who is became the counter-intelligence
10:27:00 chief of the CIA who was uh in very direct contact uh speaking
10:33:00 Italian with the Italian with it Vatican for example and the situation in Italy and in Italy
10:42:00 it’s also that the American side used the the mafia as a as a as a possibility
10:51:00 to work against the fascist and the German networks they had their own
10:59:00 intelligence and Information Network which was the mafia being reinstated after it went really to the United
11:05:00 States they brought them back and then they were in there and then it becomes all a big mess because the mafia is in
11:11:00 there in Italy and as you described there’s this uh the election uh the the
11:18:00 Moscow at that time Moscow oriented Communists in Italy which later on
11:24:00 became quite independent they were in the aldamoro case they were already very independent they were not on the on the
11:30:00 footage of the of Moscow anymore so that is where the American side spend
11:37:00 a lot of money to prevent in case the population would have voted wrong in
11:42:00 their opinion then democracy would be over and there would be a coup and so you described all that that is very and
11:50:00 I think it’s very weird that on the one hand it’s very well known for example in
11:55:00 the Soviet Union the most uh the most popular TV series ever produced for Soviet TV is 17 moments of spring which
12:04:00 is a artistic Masterpiece and that is the story of the secret negotiations of
12:09:00 Dallas with uh with wolf and the uh the near the Nazis and what the the Soviets
12:18:00 trying to prevent this so that was known in the uh in the uh in the eastern part
12:25:00 but not in the western part and then I noticed I don’t know if you put that in connection I’m not sure but there was uh
12:32:00 this uh operation Unthinkable where Churchill at the end of World War II
12:38:00 told his general staff that there would be a possibility to continue the war but
12:44:00 use the German troops and especially as S waffenus as troops under uh under Allied offices to to
12:54:00 continue the war immediately after Germany had been defeated to go on towards Moscow and that was depicted in
13:02:00 the newspaper that I could get on the internet as a kind of pipe dream and
13:07:00 they were contemplating it but it was never more than thought but a friend of mine a German documentary film had done
13:14:00 a documentary on the SS and he interviewed waffenus as people and quite a lot of them were offering their their
13:22:00 situation when they were in Northern Germany herded by the by the British of
13:27:00 troops and they were told look here are you your Panther tanks and here are the
13:33:00 weapon 43 which was a very modern thing and in a few weeks we’ll go together to fight
13:39:00 the Soviets and they were telling that and for me at that time it was difficult
13:45:00 to believe that it became stronger and stronger and I have um I don’t want to talk on forever but I have to tell you
13:51:00 that for me became extremely muddy that I didn’t understand really looking at it
13:57:00 what was going on because to me it looked like there’s a big toolkit how
14:02:00 Powers what powers can use to stay on top of the situation and it always it
14:09:00 integrates terrorism it integrates uh uh behind the scenes
14:15:00 forces and then I tried to find out who came up with the idea of gladio and then
14:21:00 it becomes murky again you you depicted it right in your in your article that
14:26:00 the soe was kind of an early idea but I also found in the German archive that
14:33:00 otters scotsini was proposing what he called overall armies which is the stay behind concept for for Germany in the
14:41:00 war and so I don’t know how you feel about it but for me it became the more I knew about it the the more difficult it
14:48:00 was to understand who was dealing with whom because of which ideology in the
14:54:00 end it seemed to me like like a very pragmatic way of trying to be stay ahead
14:59:00 on power I don’t you you make this connection with fascism so what is your feeling about that from your research I
15:06:00 I think that uh Churchill and Otto scorzeni had the same vision
15:12:00 um so I don’t I don’t think that there is a there’s a contradiction in that and
15:17:00 you know Churchill wasn’t didn’t have the best track record as a military
15:23:00 strategist uh Otto scorseni definitely proved himself I think to be the true
15:28:00 Mastermind of gladio and that’s the other um thing that is should be very
15:34:00 uncomfortable for people which was at the end of the day it wasn’t even about anglo-american Supremacy
15:41:00 um and that it was going to be okay at the end of the day if they were using these Nazis as long as or these former
15:46:00 Nazis excuse me um if they were going to be in service of anglo-american Supremacy in defense
15:53:00 of Soviet communism which is what the the line was but in reality it wasn’t it wasn’t that case and you
16:01:00 know if you look at what made up NATO um the Central Command of Europe it was
16:07:00 uh for 16 years straight uh led by a former Nazi and
16:14:00 um you know there’s the the keys to what was it in um I think it was in Del Spiegel they wrote that there was a
16:21:00 secret um army of veterans of the vermouth and the Baffin SS established in Germany in
16:27:00 1949 that were made up of of Nazis so
16:32:00 this this and deeply connected into NATO circles uh Nazis were then working
16:37:00 foreign exactly they were a branch of NATO so this this way of interpreting history as
16:45:00 Matt has a brilliant uh title for one of his articles it’s time we think about actually winning World War II we really
16:52:00 have not um World War II was not one but rather what happened was the the kind of
17:00:00 warfare that was being fought was changed strategically
17:05:00 um and we’re seeing it now re-emerge onto the the the surface so that it’s
17:12:00 harder to ignore because for the longest time it it went into more of like you
17:18:00 could say uh underground and also uh was not announcing itself so so directly
17:26:00 um but now we’re seeing it happening all over again and you know NATO has very questionable actions in terms of
17:33:00 provoking this this war in Ukraine um that is is uh is not showing you know
17:39:00 any signs that uh the West is going to to to relent even though for the longest
17:45:00 time it was being reported that you know you did clearly have um uh neo-nazis in Ukraine that were
17:53:00 were um had all types of extremists activity that were very dangerous with the
18:01:00 American government with Victoria Newlin you know the [ __ ] the EU speech even
18:06:00 um showcasing that they were involved in bringing in these neo-nazis into the Ukrainian government when the Ukraine
18:12:00 people themselves were not in support of these people um and I found this out too in doing my
18:19:00 my research there was a massive declassification of um Nazi records in a Japanese fascist
18:26:00 records at the end of the the 90s uh David Talbot’s book um the devil’s chalkboard he used a lot
18:33:00 of that information and um uh we realized with that information
18:40:00 that um what was I I totally lost uh the
18:45:00 track of my mind what was I speaking of just just now before I mentioned the records
18:51:00 um I have so much in my head that it’s hard to to keep it all in and let’s take the chance we’ll have to take a break
18:56:00 anyhow and we get back to uh to the to the talk in in a few minutes
19:02:00 you should hear what Alan Miller is talking about should it be pause now this whole procedure because it is it
19:08:00 was brought in in emergency measures there are side effects um albeit they might be small but that’s
19:15:00 small in terms of numbers but if you’re one of the small people that are statistically over the hundreds of millions of people have taken it there’s
19:21:00 many people that have got side effects here in Britain we’ve had people that many of them haven’t been paid out yet
19:27:00 and many more are being ignored what’s your view on this because such a large fraction of the population have already
19:33:00 had Covenant recovered the marginal benefit of the vaccine is smaller than it once was let me just unpack that if
19:40:00 you’ve had Covenant coverage you have quite good immunity getting the vaccine there’s no direct evidence in terms of a
19:46:00 trial for this but it it looks like it might reduce your risk of dying from covet a little bit even if you’re older
19:52:00 if you’ve recover from covid you have excellent immunity already as you say Alan I think the serious adverse event
19:59:00 rate is actually you know it’s higher than most other vaccines in Wise right use you know there’s a lot of dispute in
20:04:00 the literature about this but in any case too high for for something where there’s a marginal benefits he’s small
20:10:00 Alan Miller and today’s news talk radio TNT
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21:17:00 foreign show on today’s news talk TNT radio okay
21:24:00 this is uh dirkponable again and at the TNT radio show with Cynthia Chung and we
21:30:00 are deep into gladio the story and you were mentioning that uh I’ve um you know
21:36:00 I I listened up when uh when you mentioned the uh the German and Japanese
21:42:00 records that was a major undertaking to publish that and I was I did a
21:48:00 documentary that was called uh ready uh it’s uh uh it is there is an English
21:54:00 version of it in German it’s what we call ready for service that is about the use of Nazis and fascists by the allied
22:02:00 Allied Forces and uh it’s really uh uh it it struck me how uh how immediately
22:10:00 for example the fascists the floticlia dechimamas from Prince Valerio Borges
22:17:00 who became the the leader of the Italian neo-fascists he was immediately he was a
22:24:00 kind of a superhero in terms of Special Operations because his unit was able to
22:30:00 uh to take out two battleships in a harbor with just something like 20
22:36:00 frogmen so kind of Navy SEALs you would call them today the Italians invented
22:41:00 that and the Italians were extremely effective with it so they were they were
22:46:00 kind of super forces and um here again now I have to make sure that I’m not going astray but it was very interesting
22:52:00 because uh the uh the flauticlia decimal Mass fascists they were real fascist and
22:58:00 they loved the Israelis and the other way around so there were people from from the fortically are going to uh to
23:06:00 deal with the special forces and consider the Israelis the best fascists in the world
23:11:00 Italy had never the the National Socialist uh way of dealing with Jews
23:18:00 for them that was ridiculous the whole idea of racism was not rooted in fascism
23:23:00 that is typically German Nazi style they ridiculed the the Germans for their uh
23:30:00 for their uh racist theory that was nothing for them but they admired the
23:35:00 Israelis because they were so nationalists and they were willing to fight and die for their country and were
23:41:00 tough guys so that became a love affair before between the Italian fascists and
23:47:00 the Israeli Special Forces being uh uh under training while Otto scottsini was
23:53:00 helping both and was doing some training for the Egyptian Special Forces it’s it
23:59:00 becomes as I said you you get crazy when you look into it and that was my point when I looked at it you were mentioning
24:05:00 Dali laganza who did the first academic research on that everything else had been done by journalists before and uh
24:12:00 it in a way his book was received well in Academia but then when Daniel use the
24:19:00 same I’d say unobstructed view to reality to the 911 case he was shunned
24:26:00 and then also as an effect of that his work on gladio is considered now bad
24:32:00 Academia Daniel ganza was becoming was to become a professor at the eth in
24:37:00 Zurich which is as high as you can get in Academia in Switzerland and he was a shooting star a young brilliant academic
24:45:00 who has a a way of explaining things that everybody can understand he was
24:51:00 really a marvelous a marvelous historian and that ended his career as a
24:56:00 mainstream historian but that is also I noticed on on another strand that I was working on was Wikipedia and Wikipedia
25:03:00 could see what they did to the gladio entry it was very interesting and very long and that it was cleaned it was
25:09:00 purged so not only it became kind of the official narrative and if you wanted to
25:15:00 look what really happened then you had to go into these strange stories which
25:21:00 never really surfaced and then on another occasion when I researched the
25:27:00 work of uh of gladio in in Sweden I mean they were all over the neutral countries
25:33:00 the so-called neutral countries that were Sweden it was Austria it was
25:39:00 Switzerland it was Finland where they were very strong especially in Sweden
25:44:00 and I talked to a state Secretary uh
25:49:00 retired was a Social Democrat and he was in NATO the German connection person to
25:55:00 gladio and he told us that there had been two conferences regularly one for
26:01:00 the gladio network in NATO countries which was not terribly interesting he said but much more interesting was the
26:09:00 conference which included the so-called neutral States and then you could see that gladio was
26:15:00 becoming a kind of prolongation of the uh of the uh of the possibilities of
26:22:00 NATO into neutral countries I mean Sweden was since 1960 there was no military planning that didn’t involve
26:28:00 NATO and you were talking about Ukraine before you stopped and said uh how Victoria Newland was using again these
26:36:00 old Nazi networks and that is striking striking for me too that you could see
26:41:00 that obviously working together with Nazis it could be the end of your career or it could be the beginning of
26:48:00 something very different because the the western side work with real Nazis I mean
26:53:00 they are not only neo-nazis if you look into their writings there they do they have everything that defines the Nazi
27:00:00 including the racist theories the the dismay for any kind of of uh vaulting
27:06:00 for elections for uh having a hand risen uh take the majority voters something
27:13:00 like that so that suddenly became and that was that year it becomes very very
27:19:00 strange again who was financing the other brigades at a lot of these right-wing things uh he’s
27:26:00 a Jew uh so why do they work with Nazis yeah and then you have the Germans he’s
27:32:00 the one behind he’s the zielinski backer as well um I I wanted to just also uh just write
27:39:00 it go ahead yeah I was bragging along but I think it is because it’s so complex you you yourself are are an
27:47:00 authority on this subject as well but I just wanted to say because before the break I had forgotten why I had brought
27:52:00 up the the classification records and it was to bring up that um the CIA you know stepan Bandera is a
28:00:00 big name Nicola Levitt is a you know just as uh big in terms of the uh being
28:06:00 responsible for the Ukrainian um you know pretty much Nazis there’s
28:12:00 some people try to claimed that they were not Nazis but they they even though there was some fighting with the German
28:17:00 Nazis they were ultimately seeking to work with the Nazis and they did uh work with the Nazis and then eventually
28:24:00 mikola lebed was given Safe Haven by the CIA directly under Alan Dulles
28:30:00 and the CIA started uh operation aerodynamic which was to use a labid
28:39:00 um to continue to funnel this kind of extremism and radicalism within the
28:45:00 media within Academia within uh the journals and so forth within Ukraine
28:50:00 while it was supposedly under the Soviet Union this was still happening and it
28:57:00 was to continue this radicalization because they always viewed Ukraine as a Cold War weapon to be used they don’t
29:04:00 care about the Ukrainian people there was just they saw an opportunity there was also a revisionism of Ukrainian
29:12:00 history to to promote this idea of you know this is why you see the Trident
29:17:00 symbol that’s often mixed with like uh Nazi symbolism within their their
29:23:00 paramilitary groupings and and such is because they think that there their golden age of the Kevin Rose
29:30:00 period was them being the true ethnic representatives of thatch and that you
29:36:00 know the Russian people the Belarusian people are not uh the true uh ethnic uh
29:43:00 holders of this they’re they’re like contaminants and uh the only way that Ukraine can reach greatness again which
29:49:00 is very similar to the the German interpretation as well was that you had to have uh ethnic cleansing of your
29:56:00 country to have that greatness of your of your country come back but as we see you brought up the point of kolamoisky
30:03:00 who has a very uh High you know standing within Israeli institutions who also is
30:10:00 a heavy organizer into not just the backing of zelenski and azal funding but
30:16:00 he was also tied into the Malaysian Airline um that was shot down that was apparent
30:22:00 that is apparently an airline that he owns um and so we increasingly see that a lot
30:28:00 of the the dangerous things you also actually see this um interestingly
30:34:00 enough in any kind of like terrorist activity Matt um has done a very good
30:39:00 overview of how within Canada and the United States if you were to look at all of the so-called terrorist activity that
30:46:00 was thwarted by the FBI or the CIA you you can see that they got to a certain
30:53:00 level of threat because of direct intervention by the FBI and the CIA to
31:01:00 make the thing possible um so increasingly when you look at all
31:06:00 of the so-called threats that Democratic you know free Society is constantly
31:12:00 being threatened by you see that they are actually orchestrations hardly
31:18:00 anything is organic even like the serial killers like uh Charles Manson you see
31:24:00 is tied into MK Ultra projects so many are the Unabomber it was also another MK
31:30:00 Ultra subject it’s um it’s not coincidental but actually most of the
31:36:00 terrible things that are just on such a level of monstrosity that it it starts to make us Wonder like what is human
31:43:00 nature how can these things happen why are there such crazy ideologies they’ve been manufactured by the same sources or
31:51:00 when you were bringing up as well the the mafia situation in Italy which there it was an organic thing that I mean
31:59:00 organic in the sense that it wasn’t the Americans that made the Italian mafia but at a certain point they they had
32:06:00 um uh Incorporated the Italian mafia into the gladio arm and the OAS II of
32:14:00 the the the Renegade French intelligence military branch too that tried to overthrow de galle they also became
32:22:00 um uh Incorporated within the gladio arm and they were involved in high level level assassination networks including
32:29:00 involved in Kennedy’s assassination uh so you you look at this kind of of stuff
32:36:00 that’s happening it’s it’s all tied into the same structure it looks uh at first
32:42:00 because we’re giving these very superficial simplistic definitions of what is of what is a fascist
32:49:00 um you know what is a what is the defense that the the Americans have of
32:54:00 like you can kind of do evil onto other countries because it’s it’s in defense of freedom is actually when you look at
33:01:00 some of these kind of fascist ideologies of like you know how how to justify what
33:06:00 you’re doing it it it increasingly is not that different as an ideology if you
33:12:00 if you lose yourself in in justifying these kinds of um violent methods which
33:19:00 we’re seeing today like since 9 11 there’s been an increase in um
33:24:00 removing civil liberties and that this is a justification because we just have too many bad people out there we just
33:31:00 have too many crazy people we’re at a point now where we’re not even allowing freedom of speech which was supposed to
33:37:00 be one of the the fundamental things you have in a free Society we can’t even have freedom of speech because you just
33:42:00 have too many crazy people um that we we can’t have these people spreading their craziness everywhere and
33:50:00 this is now the idea that increasingly civil liberties is Justified to be
33:55:00 removed well we are increasingly moving towards a totalitarian system that was
34:01:00 the whole reason why we were allowing all these terrible things supposedly to happen like McCarthyism which was in
34:08:00 defense of Freedom um so it’s it’s like a big ruse it’s a it’s it’s a very long-winded way of
34:16:00 returning back to what is the same uh thing that was trying to be implemented during World War II and people have to
34:23:00 realize that yes it’s it is quite complex with all of the different you
34:28:00 know components and parts that are being used but it gets increasingly more
34:34:00 simple when when you look at what is the the bigger picture that all of these parts are being used for and it’s
34:40:00 towards the same goal which was the same goal during World War II and
34:46:00 um I have a chapter in my book um the empire in which the black Sun never set where I go over how the the level of
34:53:00 support for British uh fascism within um within Britain so when I said that
34:58:00 Churchill and Otto scorzani um were not actually uh opposites in
35:04:00 their ideological Viewpoint I was I was very serious about that and uh Oswald
35:09:00 Mosley um he was talking about uh basically the same sort of you have to explain nothing
35:15:00 I thought mostly is the British uh uh uh Nazi guy in in Great Britain trying to
35:22:00 have a Nazi party so it you might not be known to everybody just to yes yeah and
35:27:00 he was talking about uh you know gladio networks as well uh gladio is just the
35:32:00 name for you know Italy’s gladio and it just ended up being used for everything but he he was talking about this kind of
35:39:00 setup you you you find out too that clergy with the idea this might be controversial for some people to hear
35:45:00 but the idea of a European Union right this was first
35:50:00 um uh proposed by clergy in 1923 a pan-european movement and it always had
35:57:00 clergy made no um he did not shy away from him being
36:02:00 pro-fascist in his uh several autobiographical Works he said that the
36:07:00 tragedy of World War II um was that um Mussolini was uh was was thrown into
36:16:00 the arms of Hitler and if we had been smart we would have worked with Mussolini and he didn’t see a problem
36:23:00 with that idea um for Mussolini the same thing as um
36:30:00 um I forgot the guy’s name who was a a big leader in France too in terms of the
36:35:00 fascist movement uh there so it was actually quite mainstream it only became
36:42:00 controversial as Hitler increasingly was the one to represent uh the fascist
36:48:00 brand um yeah um I think definitely I wanted to throw
36:55:00 in one thing which I I can add uh when I did my documentary on the use of Nazis
37:01:00 and Fashions I had an interview with Christopher Simpson who had written uh the first really as a journalist the
37:09:00 first work on this whole topic of the use of uh Nazis fascists and scientists
37:15:00 so the influx of Nazis and fascists into the American system which is blowback
37:21:00 his book and he was part of this uh of the network or how would you say of the
37:28:00 commission who was supposed to find out which of the files about the German and
37:36:00 Japanese war criminal criminals that we used for intelligence purposes which
37:41:00 files would be published and I have to resort that the the guy who
37:48:00 was was heading the German FBI which is the bka as it’s called was
37:54:00 Otto decop who made his career as an alleged fighter against that Nazism that
38:00:00 he fled in World War II to Switzerland to work with the Americans what was true is that he worked with the Americans but
38:07:00 he was sent there by the rice Optum so the SS intelligence service and he used his cover Story the cover story that he
38:15:00 told to other people he used and after second world war in Germany to make a
38:21:00 career there he was an SS officer and one of the his buddies from from iranianborg from the SS unit were all
38:28:00 over the pka about you could say two-thirds to three-quarters of the high of the highest people were really SS
38:35:00 ranks who did had done terrible things in World War II and now it comes he was
38:41:00 not only a right-wing guy and a West German very good uh policeman from the
38:47:00 bka and what he would call an officer I think in English he was researching the
38:53:00 case of uh of decop and was presenting the facts and they fired him at BK but
39:00:00 then it became after the networks really the people that were part of that from decop were
39:06:00 getting into a retirement age the situation shifted and now there was this
39:11:00 Committee in Germany that on behalf of the bka was looking into their own past
39:16:00 into their own Nazi past and they were going to these files and I wanted to interview these people
39:23:00 um about what they found at the files and then they said yeah but there’s nothing interesting there from from
39:28:00 decop and he was in connection uh dikov was a a buddy a friend a close friend of
39:34:00 Francois new which was the leader of the uh of the French
39:40:00 in Switzerland of the french-speaking Nazis in Switzerland he had the rights to the to the Memoirs of gobbles
39:47:00 so these the guy that had was that was the chief of Interpol and of the German FBI was meeting with the guy who was
39:54:00 financing uh terrorist acts in in Africa and they were they even had a a an
40:00:00 apartment together as young men so they were very very close buddies so I asked
40:06:00 I asked them about that the the committee and they said oh there’s nothing in the files uh it’s all and I
40:12:00 said what is in the files and they said it’s all talk it’s the the nonsense talk of intelligence services and I was a
40:19:00 little astonished it could it be that you underestimate the intelligence services and that was not and then I
40:24:00 went to the United States and I asked Christopher Simpson the question because I had looked at the files for example of
40:30:00 decop but also he was a CLA asset for all his life until his death then yeah
40:35:00 he’s working he was working for the Swiss intelligence in World War II for the German intelligence and World War II
40:41:00 and for the Ellen Dallas directly in World War II he was a triple agent and then he became an agent for CIA while he
40:49:00 was the German head of the FBI so I asked Simpson what happened to the files
40:54:00 because it’s really if you read it they’re not terribly interesting this can’t be the full story and then Simpson
41:00:00 said very good question and I said why and he said yeah because it was what
41:05:00 they did is they were sanitizing the files and all the information that they gained about the actions of foreign
41:12:00 governments through legal or illegal use of intelligence was deleted from the
41:17:00 files so the German commission was working on uh on a map on the on the
41:23:00 their basic uh their basic influx for as sauces was a purge trial they didn’t
41:30:00 notice there was perched and came to the conclusion nothing interesting was in there and that made my hate my head
41:37:00 explode because I thought this is uh the way our historians work on these cases uh it’s it’s hard to it how it’s hard to
41:45:00 not write a satire about it it here it is so weird what what happened there and then you see Germany especially it’s
41:53:00 very deeply it has it has been yeah I mean the whole thing uh the whole German
41:58:00 intelligence was made up from geyland who was the head of foreign foreign armies uh he was using Russians to fight
42:05:00 Russians and after World War II because of the filthy things he’s done it was a clear candidate for the Gallows but he
42:12:00 approached the Americans said look you can kill me my words now or you use me and it would be much more interesting
42:18:00 because the Soviets are your next enemies and you could use them and they used him but they didn’t really trust
42:24:00 him they used him to get an influx into Germany after World War II and Galen
42:29:00 that is another thing that is in the book that you just mentioned uh um the uh from from the Salah editor I
42:37:00 forgot his name uh it’s one of them yeah with David Talbot he was describing the
42:43:00 Galen offered offered to do a coup in Germany in case
42:48:00 the social Democrats would get to the government he was he was he was uh going
42:54:00 towards his true Masters the CIA and said look if the German population votes the wrong way like in Italy also in
43:01:00 Germany if they would run right vote the wrong way and they would vote for the social Democrats at the free Democrats
43:08:00 who were going for reunification that was not a conservative issue at that time but the Social Democratic left-wing
43:14:00 issue rather and is that what happened for a German reunification before being a true member of NATO then he would
43:21:00 organize the coup he was promising that to his CIA masterminds who were a little bit astonished about him yeah but this
43:28:00 is you know it’s again it’s a it’s a it’s a it’s so weird it is so weird that
43:34:00 what you said then you think what I started to think about that that the the way of democracy that we are told at
43:42:00 universities or that we read and or that we get and decrement injuries and that what we are told is not what they really
43:49:00 believe in they leave belief in something different and that is dark and Sinister and has nothing to do with
43:55:00 Democratic Values with freedom with freedom of speech freedom of thought with the the anything that the uh I
44:01:00 would say the American Revolution stood for so um that was would be my take on it yeah okay and I think the tragedy and
44:09:00 I agree with you uh I think the tragedy here is um that this is why Daniella
44:14:00 Ganser got attacked because he he um he broke what was supposed to be the
44:21:00 unsaid rule in Academia that as a historian you’re allowed to talk about although certain kinds of dark secrets
44:29:00 in our history but you’re not allowed to try to apply then what you’ve learned to
44:36:00 question well what is operating the present structures of today if those
44:43:00 things were never addressed fully or corrected you know like the the line of
44:48:00 gladio is that oh well it um it was dissolved and you know at the beginning andreati when he was first
44:55:00 coming out uh talking about this he said oh it was dissolved in the 70s and then it was realized that it was still
45:01:00 ongoing so now we’re told like oh yeah well it was dissolved after that then in
45:06:00 the in the 90s mid 90s at some point but the reality of the situation is that
45:11:00 nothing has changed so all of these terrible things that you know we’ve learned about in terms of
45:18:00 the kind of undemocratic things that have been going on during the Cold War these things have been ongoing so if
45:25:00 there has been this massive track record uh with the CIA gladio branch of NATO
45:33:00 um and you know British intelligence is involved in this uh Israeli intelligence German intelligence is is is part of
45:41:00 this uh um everything pretty much all of the intelligence centers have been taken over to service this
45:47:00 if they were already intervening in all of these elections in a very undemocratic way in in in in various
45:54:00 ways including using terrorism but they were also using hard and soft assassination techniques they were they
46:01:00 were using conspiracy back then to to try to say oh this person is a Soviet puppet a stooge because if they don’t
46:09:00 agree with the hard line against Soviets if you’re not for war with uh Russia then you must be a stooge of Russia
46:15:00 right um if these techniques have been they’ve been shown that they were
46:21:00 undemocratically intervening in election processes why would we think that it’s
46:27:00 not happening today and that’s the big question because especially in the United States this has been an ongoing
46:34:00 thing now for uh you know almost eight years where they’ve been you know
46:40:00 claiming that Russia has been intervening in their election process now they’re talking about China
46:45:00 intervening in their election process us they should really understand that it is
46:51:00 the the very apparatus that has been claiming to be defending the Western
46:56:00 people including the American people against uh Russian uh infiltration and
47:02:00 increasingly Now Chinese infiltration they are the ones who have a decades-long
47:08:00 um list of of intervening in election processes throughout the world and
47:14:00 assassinating its democratically elected leaders so people have to really
47:20:00 confront this ugly reality and not just talk about it as this you know a historical thing but that this is still
47:27:00 something that needs to be addressed otherwise we are going to continue into
47:33:00 a Direction Where We will have less rights we will have less civil liberties
47:39:00 that we were supposed to be defending this whole time we’ve we’ve lost our way you know the the west and claiming to be
47:47:00 supporting these values as like the most important values yeah let’s get to the ads one more and
47:54:00 then get back to this very important topic give me a minute with TNT radio
47:59:00 Steve Mossberg this past Wednesday the Florida Board of Education did what governor Ron DeSantis wanted them to do
48:05:00 they expanded the existing restrictions on The Grooming of children in Florida schools the law in effect which is
48:10:00 constantly referred to by the Looney leftist media as the don’t say gay bill which is outrageously misleading on
48:16:00 purpose of course currently bans lessons on sexual orientation and gender identity from kindergarten through grade
48:22:00 three the new Provisions would expand that to include grades 4 through 12 for the most part and the left can’t take it
48:28:00 listen to actress Patti LuPone on The View reacting on Wednesday and I’ve said
48:35:00 this before and I’m going to get in trouble but I have said this before and it’s been in print I don’t know what the difference between our Christian right
48:40:00 and the Taliban is I have no idea what the difference is you’re not the only person who’s said that I don’t I just
48:48:00 don’t know what the difference is what’s happening in this country right now in the name of religion is so dangerous
48:54:00 and it’s not this country it’s not America well Whoopi then they are as sick and twisted as your guests most
49:00:00 Americans can tell you that among other travesties the Taliban has barred women and girls from secondary schools and
49:06:00 universities Patti LuPone is either a plain idiot or a very useful one thanks
49:11:00 for giving me a minute I’m Steve mallsberg for TNT radio
49:17:00 you’re the one baby you’re the one no seriously honey you’re the one oh
49:25:00 yeah you’re the one for me you’re the one who’s going to carry our baby yeah
49:31:00 who’s gonna go through all those intense hours of excruciating painful labor not
49:38:00 me you’re the one who’s going to deal with those smelly dirty diapers yeah
49:43:00 you’re the one who’s going to have to pull herself out of bed at three in the morning the baby is crying out to be fed
49:51:00 you’re the one who’s going to have to find daycare so you can go to work to pay for all the stuff the baby needs
49:57:00 you’re the one still think having a baby as a teen is a good idea yeah baby
50:03:00 you’re the one you’re the one who’s going to have to make sacrifices yeah go
50:09:00 to babycanway.com to learn how to prevent teen pregnancy this message brought to you by United Way of Greater
50:15:00 Milwaukee [Music] you’re listening to Dirk Pullman on
50:20:00 today’s news talk NT radio so this is Doug Pullman again with the dark Pullman show and Cynthia
50:26:00 Chung and we were discussing this really you came to very similar conclusions that I came that we uh that we have to
50:33:00 understand that if we want to have something like what we learned universities or read in the school books
50:39:00 or is the set of rules that allegedly is uh uh is important for us then we see
50:46:00 that we really will have to fight for it it is not what the reality of power
50:52:00 structure is we have to uh you know like just like we do now by researching that
50:58:00 and get together and that would include people from Russia and China to understand what’s going on there we have
51:03:00 to get on a new level of understanding of the what is behind the curtain how the real mechanisms are are done which
51:11:00 is not what you hear not in normal mainstream media you could I call the the assassination of of Kennedy not
51:18:00 being solved the original sin and then you have 911 and now we haven’t Germany not stream 2 was a channel the same way
51:24:00 look at the other way so this is not the way to go forward if we want to have
51:29:00 something which really a lot of people in the world strive for that that’s uh that is a a society there where we all
51:36:00 can prosper in and collaborate and work together then we will have to get back
51:42:00 to to get the control of the of the states that we live in from these people to ourselves and it won’t be a very easy
51:49:00 and it won’t be pretty probably and to me it was um maybe a strange connection
51:55:00 but um the the GLA the uh covet case was you know like living in a in a surrounding
52:01:00 which includes bacteria and viruses means that you you live in there and they are capable to deal with it and
52:07:00 that’s they were part of human evolution and then they depicted that as being something that has to be fought we have
52:13:00 to fight what we have to declare war on viruses Dirk they even claimed that the the the
52:20:00 typical flu who was eradicated and we only had covid as like the crazy you
52:27:00 know level of uh part for me it became part of this weird scheme where you’re not looking into what reality is and
52:34:00 that is the same for the for the states that that we need this we need the
52:39:00 possibility to speak out against governments and the good government would be wise enough to accept that
52:44:00 because that’s the method of how we clean up our messes and that’s all gone we have to get back to that if we if it
52:51:00 if it is supposed to work for my children or my grandchildren it’s for me it’s uh for me it’s kind of maybe too
52:57:00 late for that but I’m I’m in a I think it’s uh it’s it’s not what it was supposed to be the first thing for
53:03:00 people is to understand and they will not be helped by the people who brought us into this mess
53:09:00 yeah I think that it’s it’s gotten to a point where uh journalism it’s it’s
53:14:00 pretty difficult to do any kind of real journalism now and um one thing that
53:20:00 people can kind of think about as a as a way you know because it’s difficult maybe for the average person to think
53:26:00 how do I get involved in such a a massive situation and it’s really to
53:33:00 just not go along with a narrative without really looking
53:38:00 into well why do I think this way or why do why are they encouraging uh me to to
53:44:00 think this way um maybe knowing some of the the inconsistencies that uh someone is aware
53:51:00 of historically um it’s I think they just play on people’s uh the fact that we have
53:58:00 unfortunately been too divided by a huge chunk of the world the Western people
54:04:00 don’t understand very much about I would argue the majority of the world’s
54:10:00 population and that’s a big problem you know we don’t know very much about how
54:16:00 people live in Asia or in Africa or even in South America to a large degree and
54:22:00 we don’t know how what what are these people going through what are their concerns how are they viewing uh the
54:28:00 actions of of the West and this cold war thing part of uh what I believe was
54:34:00 organized for this was that there was actually a natural partnership that was forming
54:40:00 um you had within the United States the process of uh you know with the
54:47:00 Centennial Exhibition with Henry C Carey where you know the United States had become an industrial leader and so you
54:53:00 started to see Henry seek Kerry networks within Russia within Japan within China
54:58:00 within Germany with the zolvaheim with uh Friedrich list that uh were
55:04:00 instrumental at developing National sovereignty you know Germany as well at
55:09:00 the time uh was not a sovereign country either and was was
55:14:00 Cynthia I had to cut you off at this point because we ran out of time I think we to make sure that it’s not it doesn’t
55:21:00 look like a censorship we will continue with this on another day and it was a it was a great pleasure for me to to talk
55:28:00 with you so goodbye to everybody and we do that again all right thank you sure.

Fonte The Ugly Truth of Operation Gladio: Cynthia Chung on the Dirk Pohlman Show

♦ 25 Aprile alternativo: ecco 28 date storiche che si celebrano oggi

♦ Battaglia di Gallipoli, Liberazione, Rivoluzione dei Garofani: gli anniversari geopolitici del 25 aprile

♦ 25 Aprile 2023: Il fascismo degli antifascisti

♦ 25 aprile, Mattarella: «Teniamo viva la memoria» – ok, ecco … ⇔ @iGiuI

♦ Partigiani rosso sangue: il lato oscuro della guerra civile italiana — @GiusN

♦ 25.4 … Maria Garzena … ausiliaria appena 20enne … uccise diciassette … Jole Genesi e Lidia Rovilda … la famiglia Tescari … la famiglia Biamonti … Emergenza antifascismo

♦ … nel biellese, furono circa 150 le donne assassinate dai criminali rossi spesso dopo essere state schiavizzate e aver subito violenze. — @FraTot

♦ … “siamo tutt* antifascist*” … — @CDCo

♦ … festa dell’occupazione … è la festa delle élite liberali. —@CeSac

♦ La storia d’Italia protettorato degli USA — @BdS

♦ La dittatura è quando gli stolti non si accorgono di essere in dittatura —@GioBiPh —@CoTru —@GiusN

♦ … e Buon 25 Aprile. Oggi si celebra la liberazione italiana dal nazi-fascismo. Oggi qui si celebra questo, perché questa è la dittatura che qui imperversò, …@SceusaP ;
♦ Il 25 aprile: una storia divergente. -Giorgio Vitali.

♦ 25 aprile una data divisiva non solo per l’Italia

♦ Ma quale liberazione – Ugo Mattei (da  Provocazione e repressione nella costruzione del consenso)

♦ Il 25 Aprile: gli ultimi epigoni dell’Impero Euroatlantista

♦ Per il 25.4, ricordare alcuni momenti TOP degli ultimi anni, … polizia locale smantella le panchine per evitare il contagio. — @GuLib

♦ Italia Sostituzione etnica? No, culturale: I ‘valori’ della guerra al posto della pace.
–Alessandro Orsini

♦ Referendum contro la guerra: perché io ho firmato … — @SceusaP

Lo statistico francese invitato dal Courrier des Stratèges ripercorre la serie di “falsità” che hanno contribuito a generare la grande paura del virus per tre anni.

Lo statistico Pierre Chaillot (a destra nella foto), autore di Covid 19, ce que révèlent les chiffres officiels (Covid 19, cosa rivelano le cifre ufficiali), ripercorre la genesi e gli elementi distorti della crisi in dodici tappe con Éric Verhaeghe del Courrier des Stratèges. Covidhub.ch vi offre una sintesi dei loro scambi, l’essenziale per alimentare la memoria collettiva della pandemia.

(N.d.T.: sono state prese alcune libertà sintattiche per adattare lo stile orale alla parola scritta).

1 – I test Covid non dicono nulla sul numero reale di pazienti

Pierre Chaillot: “Quando si guardano le statistiche fornite dal Ministero della Salute francese, si può vedere se ogni test è negativo o positivo e se la persona è sintomatica o asintomatica.
Possiamo notare che tra i pazienti con sintomi di Covid-19, la stragrande maggioranza ha un test negativo, il che pone un problema di definizione della malattia. Tra coloro che risultano positivi, la stragrande maggioranza non presenta sintomi. La conclusione è che non c’è alcuna relazione tra i risultati del test e i sintomi noti”.

2 – La genesi della “pandemia“

Pierre Chaillot: “Quello che sappiamo è che la definizione di pandemia, e quindi di malattia, è cambiata dal 2009 e che non c’è più bisogno di malati e morti per considerare che siamo in una pandemia. È sufficiente che un laboratorio da qualche parte ricostruisca una sequenza che ricordi un virus cosiddetto “mortale” utilizzando statistiche e metodi multipli. Ed è quello che è successo.
All’inizio di questa storia abbiamo un laboratorio cinese. Siamo in Cina, è la fine del 2019, siamo a Wuhan, che è una delle città più inquinate del mondo, in inverno, in un periodo in cui ci sono molte malattie respiratorie, malati e morti. Abbiamo un laboratorio, i giornali e l’OMS che dicono “attenzione, abbiamo trovato 40 pazienti“, su milioni di abitanti, che soffrono di una malattia respiratoria.

Come è stato identificato il “virus killer“

Ma subito si impone l’idea del virus killer che sarebbe responsabile della loro infelicità. C’è un laboratorio cinese che prende un campione da un paziente, dai suoi polmoni, e inizia a sequenziare ciò che trova. A questo punto non c’è isolamento del virus. Stiamo sequenziando tutta la zuppa che abbiamo trovato nei suoi polmoni.
Stiamo eseguendo un sequenziamento multiplo per vedere cosa c’è dentro. Nel fare questo sequenziamento, si trovano pezzi di RNA. Poi chiediamo a un algoritmo informatico di mettere insieme questi pezzetti di RNA per vedere se corrispondono alla sequenza di un virus.
La metodologia è stata pubblicata sulla rivista Nature. Vengono eseguiti due programmi, uno dice “non c’è nessun virus in questo campione“, e c’è un secondo programma, che non ha lo stesso algoritmo, e dice “sì sì, posso ricostruire un virus di 30.000 nucleotidi” – che è un virus.

Un ciclo di bias di conferma legato a grandi interessi.

E poi i ricercatori dicono: “Guardate, assomiglia alla SARS, quindi è il nuovo virus mortale“. Da quel momento in poi, entriamo in un bias di conferma totale. Abbiamo cioè laboratori finanziati grazie al clamore che generano ogni anno, legati all’industria farmaceutica, che passano il loro tempo in campioni cercando di ricostruire virus o ciò che credono essere virus sulla base di deboli indizi.
Non appena viene pubblicata la nuova sequenza, l’OMS lancia l’allarme: “Ci siamo, abbiamo un nuovo virus killer che sta per devastare il pianeta“. In termini scientifici, abbiamo un insieme di indizi estremamente deboli con un forte pregiudizio di conferma, cioè tutti sono ai blocchi di partenza per annunciare la pandemia sulla base di questo unico indizio.

3 – L’influenza dei modellatori folli

Éric Verhaeghe: “Un rapporto del Consiglio d’Europa afferma che c’era un desiderio collettivo nella comunità scientifica di avere una pandemia”.

Pierre Chaillot: “Abbiamo Antoine Flahaut che da anni annuncia la fine del mondo e, al minimo segno di questo tipo di risultato, grida: questa è la fine del mondo, questa è la fine del mondo!
C’è Fergusson in Inghilterra che annuncia milioni di morti ogni volta che viene trovato un virus da qualche parte, sia negli animali che nell’uomo, e che si è sempre sbagliato di un fattore compreso tra 10.000 e un milione, perché si sbaglia ogni volta.
Quindi abbiamo specialisti, modellatori pazzi che fanno di tutto e che promuovono la fine del mondo al minimo segnale, abbiamo laboratori che cercano solo questo indizio e quindi, a forza di cercare, trovano cose, e questo lancia i laboratori farmaceutici che dicono: “Non preoccupatevi, abbiamo la soluzione, sono i vaccini“. E questo lancia l’OMS, che proclama: “Ci siamo, è la grande pandemia, dobbiamo mettere il mondo in modalità pandemia“.”

4 – Un’epidemia di conflitti di interesse

EV: “L’OMS e i produttori di vaccini sono legati da conflitti di interesse”.

PC: “Assolutamente sì, con le persone al centro che fanno la transizione, con le cosiddette fondazioni umanitarie che sono agevolazioni fiscali per i ricchi, in particolare la Fondazione Bill e Melinda Gates, che finanziano l’OMS e sono in combutta con le aziende farmaceutiche.
Tutte queste persone si parlano tra loro. Abbiamo quindi una macchina che è già andata alla deriva con lo scandalo H1N1, che il rapporto del Senato francese definisce una truffa, nero su bianco, e che viene rilanciata dieci anni dopo con la stessa metodologia, ma con il potere dei laboratori decuplicato, con conflitti di interesse che erano già stati denunciati nel 2009 e che si sono solo accentuati, e con una morsa della finanza sui cosiddetti laboratori scientifici e farmaceutici, sulle pubblicazioni scientifiche, dove pagano anche le grandi riviste.

5 – La falsificazione della percezione

PC: “Tutto questo sistema viene messo in piedi con estrema rapidità, sulla base di indicatori estremamente deboli, di un fortissimo bias di conferma e tutto questo sta per scatenare un panico generale, che non ha assolutamente nulla a che fare, in termini di livello, con quello che poi si può misurare con le cifre.
Questo è ciò che il mio libro mostra, questa enorme differenza tra la percezione che la gente ha avuto sulla base di statistiche ben selezionate, rispetto alla percezione che si può ottenere facendo un’analisi onesta della situazione, mettendo i numeri nel contesto”.

“L’unica cosa che posso dire è che nelle statistiche non c’è traccia dell’impatto di nessun virus in nessun momento. Le tracce che vediamo di mortalità o malattia sono dovute ad altre cose, alla disorganizzazione della società e alla paura“.
–Pierre Chaillot

6 – La parte della “disorganizzazione“

EV: “Nel settembre 2020, in Belgio, prima dell’arrivo del vaccino, quando sono andato al cimitero ho visto molte tombe fresche, non avevo mai visto così tanti morti recenti. Come si spiega questo?”.

PC: “Prima di tutto, le tombe fresche nei cimiteri sono destinate ad aumentare. Abbiamo i baby boomer che stanno raggiungendo l’età in cui si muore, quindi il numero di morti continuerà a salire bruscamente per almeno altri dieci anni, finché i baby boomer non se ne saranno andati.
Il secondo punto è che c’è stato effettivamente un aumento della mortalità nel marzo-aprile 2020 in un numero molto ridotto di Paesi, solo 9 dei 35 per i quali dispongo di dati in Europa. Poiché è stata data una quantità sproporzionata di informazioni su questi Paesi, la gente ha l’impressione che ci sia una pandemia con morti ovunque.
In questi Paesi sono accadute diverse cose. La prima è che le persone sono state confinate dando un ordine molto preciso, che non dovevano andare dal medico, che dovevano rimanere a casa a prendere Doliprane, dicendo soprattutto di non andare dal medico, di rimanere a casa e di chiamare i servizi di emergenza solo se non si riesce a respirare.
Questo periodo di confinamento ha avuto almeno tre impatti, che si sono manifestati sugli anziani: (7,8,9)”

7 – Decessi “in casa“

PC: “Il primo impatto è l’aumento del numero di morti in casa. Gli ospedali, a partire da maggio 2020, hanno suonato il campanello d’allarme dicendo: ‘È strano, non vediamo più nessuno venire al pronto soccorso per ictus e problemi cardiaci‘. Si tratta di circa 6.000 persone scomparse dagli ospedali in quel periodo.
Quindi, o abbiamo un virus letale che protegge da ictus e attacchi cardiaci, oppure abbiamo spaventato a morte le persone, che non sono andate in ospedale e sono morte a casa.
I decessi in casa sono una delle tre categorie che insieme formano il picco di eccesso di mortalità registrato con i decessi in ospedale e quelli nelle case di riposo.

I decessi in casa si spiegano al 100% con persone che non sono state curate, che non sono andate in ospedale per patologie che di solito vengono trattate in ospedale e che, se non vengono curate rapidamente, sono fatali.

Tutte le relazioni sociali sono state vietate, le persone sono rimaste a casa. Ciò che salva le persone è avere un vicino, un amico, un parente che si accorge che si tiene il braccio sinistro e che si è un po’ pallidi o che si comincia a sbavare sul piatto. Quando questo non accade, si muore. Ed è quello che è successo in quel momento, ed è misurabile con i numeri, statisticamente è molto chiaro”.

8 – Decessi in ospedale

PC: “Sui decessi in ospedale, c’è un rapporto che mostra che il 20% dei ricoveri in Covid è morto nello stesso giorno. Si tratta di persone che non sono state curate e che arrivano troppo tardi in ospedale o che sono state curate con metodi non adeguati, come la moda dell’intubazione invasiva, dove si è decretato: “Tutti gli anziani che tossiscono devono essere intubati subito e messi sotto sedativi“.
Gli italiani hanno riferito in merito: “Non è stata una buona idea, perché abbiamo perso quasi tutti facendo così, gli ottantenni non sopravvivono all’intubazione“.

9 – Decessi in EHPAD [RSA]

PC: “Il terzo punto sono le EHPAD, questo picco di decessi è piuttosto divertente, perché se si guarda al numero di decessi in EHPAD nel periodo e al numero di decessi dichiarati Covid, si nota che quasi tutti i decessi in EHPAD sono stati dichiarati Covid, il che non ha senso se si guardano le statistiche.
Il secondo punto è una direttiva del Ministero della Salute, che ha mobilitato le cure palliative molto presto, dicendo “c’è una malattia mortale in circolazione, non abbiamo spazio negli ospedali, l’unica cosa che possiamo fare, visto che non ci sono cure, è che se avete una persona anziana con il sospetto di avere la Covid-19, potete accompagnarla nelle cure palliative“.

Massacro da Rivotril

“Prima della crisi queste persone erano curate, durante la crisi non sono state curate e sono state inviate alle cure palliative. Dalla data di pubblicazione del decreto sul Rivotril – il nome del farmaco utilizzato nelle cure palliative – si è registrato un forte aumento del numero di decessi nelle case di cura. Siamo quindi in presenza di un virus interessante, che attende con piacere l’emanazione di un decreto.
Il Rivotril non si limita a sedare la persona, poiché le istruzioni indicano che se una persona ha difficoltà respiratorie, non appena viene sedata smette di respirare. Quindi l’aspettativa di vita non è elevata.
Se scarichiamo il numero di scatole di Rivotril distribuite in questo periodo, possiamo vedere che sono state vendute 2.000 scatole in eccesso. In una scatola ci sono 6 fiale, 2 fiale sono necessarie per accompagnare una persona anziana fino alla fine della sua vita. Quindi l’eccesso di mortalità dovuto al Rivotril è di almeno 5.000 persone.”

10 – Lo pseudo eccesso di mortalità nel 2020

PC: “Nel 2020 abbiamo avuto +55.000 morti rispetto al 2019… ma il 2019 è stato l’anno meno mortale della storia, quindi è abbastanza facile dire che abbiamo un eccesso di mortalità nel 2020 se lo confrontiamo con l’anno meno mortale della storia.
Inoltre, l’invecchiamento della popolazione rappresenta da solo un aumento di 10.000-20.000 morti ogni anno. La mortalità “standardizzata” del 2015, ad esempio, è esattamente la stessa del 2020. Ciò significa che nel 2020 non è successo molto. Questo non significa che non sia successo nulla, ma che non è successo nulla di abbastanza significativo da lasciare una traccia.
Quindi, collegando le decisioni prese, possiamo spiegare il 100% dell’eccesso di mortalità senza coinvolgere alcun virus in nessun punto. Questo spiega molto bene perché non c’è coerenza geografica tra i Paesi e perché ci sono Paesi come la Germania che non hanno un eccesso di mortalità durante la prima ondata, semplicemente perché non applicano misure deleterie”.

11 – Statistiche sul Covid? “Buone per il cestino“.

PC: “Sto parlando di morti per tutte le cause, perché come ho detto, dato che sono stati fatti dei test per affermare che una persona si è ammalata a causa del Covid senza avere alcun sintomo, questo significa che l’intera statistica del Covid non ha alcun valore, è buona per il cestino.
E ogni cosiddetto scienziato che usa le statistiche del Covid per dire qualcosa non sta facendo scienza. Si tratta di un’incomprensione della statistica.
Per avere una statistica, bisogna sapere cosa si conta, e non appena si conta in modo stupido, o qualcosa che non significa nulla, la statistica alla fine non significa nulla.”

“Le statistiche da Covid stampate , che si tratti di pazienti, ricoveri o decessi, non hanno alcun significato perché il protocollo di conteggio non ha alcun significato“. –Pierre Chaillot

12 – Sovramortalità da [falso]vaccino nel 2021 e 2022

PC: “Sebbene la mortalità sia stata diversa nei vari Paesi, i Paesi che non hanno attuato misure deleterie, come la Francia nel 2020, hanno visto aumentare la mortalità nel 2021 e nel 2022 in modo bizzarro.”

“In Francia abbiamo assistito a un calo della mortalità rispetto al 2020, ma semplicemente perché abbiamo ricominciato a curare le persone. Quindi non significa che abbiamo un vaccino che funziona, ma semplicemente che abbiamo riavviato il consueto flusso di cure per i malati.”

Questo accade proprio durante le campagne di vaccinazione.

“Quello che mostro nel mio libro è che se si osserva il numero di decessi per categoria di età ogni settimana, si rimane sorpresi nel vedere picchi di decessi, aumenti di mortalità, proprio durante le campagne di vaccinazione. E questo è vero per quasi tutti i Paesi europei, per quasi tutte le fasce d’età. E accade troppo spesso perché sia dovuto al caso, basta fare un piccolo calcolo statistico per convincersene.”

“Ci sono registri di segnalazioni alla farmacovigilanza in seguito a vaccini, ci sono studi della Pfizer che ci dicono che si sta più male dopo aver ricevuto un’iniezione che dopo aver ricevuto un placebo. E tutte queste indicazioni si dimostrano troppo coerenti per poter dire che non sta succedendo nulla, abbiamo un problema reale.”

Una coltre plumbea che ci impedisce di parlarne.

“Ci sono alcune cose che stanno accadendo, in particolare il ministro tedesco che ha fatto un discorso ipotizzando l’esistenza di problemi seri. Se si leggono i rapporti dell’ANSM, ci si rende conto che ci sono molti problemi gravi emersi dopo le vaccinazioni.”

“Quindi c’è un’enorme quantità di informazioni che sono state pubblicate fin dall’inizio e che stanno venendo fuori, e c’è solo una specie di coltre di piombo che impedisce alle persone di parlare e che impedisce ai ricercatori di parlare e che impedisce loro di dire qual è la realtà, cioè che abbiamo misurato un sacco di gravi effetti indesiderati e che questo può essere visto nelle statistiche della sperimentazione“.

Fonte/Tradotto da: Pierre Chaillot : les 12 coups de la pandémie – La vérité …

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